Parole Hearing Transcript 2016

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David   Berkowitz DIN #78 A 1976 NYSID

1.
2. NYS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY SUPERVISION
3. ......................…………………………………………………………………………......................................................
4. Parole Board Interview
5. in the matter
6. of
7.
8. David Berkowitz
9. DIN 78 A 1976 NYSID
10. …………………………………………………………………………………....
11. TYPE OF INTERVIEW: Reappearance.
12. LOCATION: Shawangunk Correctional Facility
13. Video-Conferenced to NYS-DOCCS
14. 20 Manchester Road
15. Poughkeepsie, New York
16. DATE: May 17, 2016
DECISION DATE: May 17, 2016
17. BEFORE: COMMISSIONER LUDLOW
COMMISSIONER ELOVICH
18. COMMISSIONER THOMPSON
19. ALSO PRESENT: A. TOMLIN, SORC
C. DENNISTON, ORC
20.
21. AT FACILITY: S. KOBER, ORC
22.
23. HEARING REPORTER: Lori Ciofalo
24.
25.
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David Berkowitz   DIN   #78 A 1976 NYSID

COMM. LUDLOW: Good morning, Sir
THE INMATE: Good morning.
COMM. LUDLOW: Sir, you are David Berkowitz?
THE INMATE: I can’t hear anything I’m
sorry.
COMM. LUDLOW: You can hear us now?
THE INMATE Yes Sir. Yes, Sir. Good morning. Good
morning.
COMM.LUDLOW: There is some noise in the background.
What is that?
ORC Kober: It’s the fan for the computer,
Sir, for the system.
COMM LUDLOW: You can’t tone that down?
ORC KOBER: It’s part of the TV system.
COMM. LUDLOW: We don’t have it on this end
I’ve never heard that anywhere in the State. There
must be something wrong with that equipment.
Mr. Berkowitz, can you hear me OK?
THE INMATE: Yes I can, Sir.
COMM. LUDLOW: Sir, you are David Berkowitz,
correct?
THE INMATE: Yes, Sir.
COMM LUDLOW: Mr. Berkowitz, I am
Commissioner Ludlow, with me Commissioner Elovich,
Commissioner Thompson.

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DAVID BERKOWITZ    DIN #78 A1976 NYSID

COMM. ELOVICH: Good morning.
COMM. THOMPSON: Good morning.
THE INMATE: Good morning.
INTERVIEW BY COMMISSIONER LUDLOW:
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, this appears to be your fifteenth
appearance before the Board of Parole; is that correct,
Sir?
A. I believe it’s my eighth. Eight, I think, Sir.
Eighth? It looks like fifteen to me. You did
have some refusals interspersed, but in terms of actual,
physical, appearances before the Board of Parole, this
appears to be number fifteen.
A. Okay, then you might be correct, sir. In that
case, yes.
Q. Is that correct or not? You should know.
I believe so. I kinda lost count, to be honest
with you.
Okay, that is what it appears to be to me.
You are sixty- two- years old is that correct,
now?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. Can you hear me okay?
A. Yes I can.
Q. Okay, thank you. You were convicted out of, it
appears to be, all of the boroughs of the City of New

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1. York, except Staten Island; is that correct?
2. A. Yes, Staten Island and Manhattan. Nothing
3. happened there.
4. Q. So you were convicted out of three boroughs: is
5. that right?
6. A. Yes, Sir, yes.
7. Q. Okay. And you were convicted of approximately,
8. well, it appears to be twenty-one various convictions,
9. involving Murder, Second, Attempted Murder Second,
10. Assault First, Criminal Possession of a Weapon, and
11. there are other similar convictions here, some of which
12. have multiple counts.
13. The controlling sentence is twenty-five to life;
14.    is that correct, Sir?
15.     A. Yes, Commissioner, Yes.
16. Q. You’ve been in a long time, Mr. Berkowitz.   We
17.     certainly recognize that. We are cognizant of that
18.    point.
19. It appears as though you have been in close to
20. thirty-seven years, in State prison; is that correct?
21. A. I believe it is closer to thirty-nine, all
22. together. I was arrested in 1977, and I came upstate in
23. 1978. Say about maybe thirty-nine years, or close to
24. it, if I’m correct.
25. Q. These convictions appear to be your only felonies

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of record; is that correct?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. Otherwise stated, do you have any prior felony
convictions?
A. No, no.
Q. Do you have any convictions out of State, sir?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. Now, we do have sentencing Minutes on
file, Queen’s County, State Supreme Court, June 12th
1978, before Judge Tsoucalas.
You at the time, were represented by Mr. Leon
Stern and Ira Jultak; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The minutes are on file and are a part of the
record.
We have the COMPAS Risk Assessment on file. The
COMPAS Risk Assessment is a tool that we use to assist
Us in complying with Executive Law 259 C4, which
requires the Board of Parole to conduct a risk and needs
assessment, as a measure of your rehabilitation for
re-entry into the community.
In your case the computer assessment has you at a
low risk of felony violence, a low risk of arrest, and a
low risk of absconding taking off from parole.
If on parole, would you anticipate presenting as

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a low risk to the public safety, as suggested by this
computer analysis, or something else? What are your
thoughts, sir?
A. I feel I am no risk, whatsoever.
My criminal past was a terrible tragedy. By the
grace of God, I want to have that behind me now.
I really didn’t come here to seek parole. More
than anything, I came here just to talk with you. I
have some things in my heart to share. But I understand
this is a parole hearing and you have your formalities,
and that’s fine.
Q. This is indeed a parole interview. As such, the
Board of Parole is required, by Executive Law, to
consider various factors, and we certainly want to
comply fully with the Executive Law, which governs the
operation of the Board of Parole. Do you understand
that, sir?
A. Oh, of course, absolutely.
Q. Now, in that regard, we have a Case Plan on file.
The Case Plan is a statement of goals, tasks and
activities.
Among the goals identified in the Case Plan:
Improve problem-solving skills, spend more time
volunteering. These are the goals identified in the
Case Plan.

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David Berkowitz BIN 78 A 1976 NYSID

Have you made progress with regards to either or
Both of these goals, sir?
A. Yes, I have, sure.
Q. What have you done in that regard?
A. Well, I continue to go forward with my life I
do a lot of good things.
When I was in Sullivan Correctional Facility I
was there for more than twenty-eight years.
Twenty-eight plus years. And I was a caregiver. I
worked with mental health inmates. I worked with
sight-impaired inmates.
I was a chapel clerk and I helped run chapel services. I would
oversee chapel services, and I would
do Bible studies. I was constantly putting myself out
there to help individuals, with kindness and
compassion.
I mean, I feel that’s my life’s calling, all
these years. My evaluations, and so forth, should show
that to be true. I’ve done a lot of good and positive
things and I thank God for that.
Q. That’s certainly to your credit. We will take
that into consideration.
With regard to the instant offenses, the record
indicates that you caused the deaths of six individuals,
in the various boroughs we discussed. You also wounded,

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in a serious way, several other victims.
You have what appears to be a grand total of
thirteen victims, here, six of whom you killed; is that
all correct?
A. Yes, yes, that is correct.
Unfortunately, it was a terrible tragedy. I
regret that with all my heart. I would do anything if
I could ever change that.
But that’s part of the past, and there is nothing
I could do but grieve. I have a lot of pain in my life
over all that happened.
Q. There is commentary in the file to the effect
that you virtually paralyzed the City of New York from
July 29th, 1976 through July 31st, 1977.
What do you have to say about that comment,
any response?
A. I am deeply sorry for all that has happened I
I believe I was not in my right mind at the time. I take
full responsibility, and I just regret it.
It was a time that my life was out of control.
I’d do anything if I could go back and change that, but
it’s impossible to go back into the past and fix those
kinds of things.
Q. There is an indication on the file, Mr.
Berkowitz, that you told the staff, something to the

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effect, and I quote, “The hearing process, meaning the
parole hearing process, is painful, and that you believe
parole is not realistic, and you are reportedly content
to do the best that you can in prison” end quote.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you make that statement or something similar?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Would you care to elaborate on that, Sir?
Specifically, the statement that, quote, “parole is not
realistic”.
Did you make that statement, and would you care
to elaborate on that specifically?
A. Well, I feel that the crimes were so serious and
the damage so severe, and so many people I’m sure are
still hurting and grieving, that realistically,
something like parole, in my situation, would be very
unusual.
I wish things were different, but I’m just being
realistic. Reality, sometimes, can be painful, but I
have to deal with what it is. You know?
Q. We understand, and we appreciate your perspective
in that regard.
With respect to discipline, the file indicates
that you have had no disciplinary issues since November
of 2004; is that correct, sir?

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David Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1976 NYSID

A. I believe so, yes.
Q. In the event you are paroled, do you have any
plan on where to live, sir? Do you have any release
plan or concept of where you might reside?
A. Not at this time, no. Not at this time.
Q. So it would appear that if you were released you
would need a shelter of some kind. Is that your
understanding?
A. Well, I’d probably need someplace to live. If
that were ever the case, I have a few very good friends,
and people who are ministers, outstanding members of
society, who would take me in and afford me a place to
live.
I’m just saying, if that were ever the case, I
have many things to fall back on, if that were a
reality.
Q. I understand. Thank you.
In terms of work. If on parole, you have
identified working in ministry, involving counseling of
youth.
We also note that you have reportedly achieved an
Associate Degree in Business Administration. Is that
accurate, sir?
A. Yes that is, yes.
Q. From what institution and when was that?

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A. I graduated Sullivan Community College, with a
two-year degree in Business Administration, and I
graduated with two honors.
Q. That’s indeed to your credit, and we will
consider that as such.
(redacted)
(redacted) That indicates that you are,
currently, (redacted) is
that accurate?
A. Yes, sir, that’s accurate.
Q. The file further indicates that in April of 1993
you were classified (redacted)
(redacted)
We do have a (redacted) on file. You
were reportedly seen as recently as February 8th, 2016
by the (redacted).
That report indicates that you are not (redacted)
(redacted)
is that correct?
A. Yes, sir, that’s correct.
Q. The report further indicates that you are not,
currently participating in any (redacted)
(redacted). Is that correct, as well?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. In terms of a diagnosis, the reports states, and I

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quote, “None”. Are you sure of that?
A. I am aware of it, now. I didn’t see the report,
until you just revealed that.
Q. In terms of recommended treatment, and I quote,
from the report, “there are no recommendations from a
(redacted) standpoint, at present” end quote. Are
you aware of that?
A. Well. I am, now, that you read that to me, and I
thank God for that.
Q. This is a report of social worker Osmen Yildiz,
Social Worker 2
Is this report accurate and current in terms of
the sections that I’ve read, in your opinion?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Now, in terms of programs, the file indicates
that over your period of incarceration, which you
identified as thirty-nine years, you have completed all
mandatory programs, you’ve completed in the college
Program, as specified a moment ago; is that correct,
sir?
A. Yes, sir, that’s correct.
Q. In terms of programming, is there anything, in
particular, that you wish to cite for the panel’s particular
attention?
A. Well, as I said, for many years I have worked as

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David Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1876 NYSID

I guess you could say, just like a caregiver.
I have a heart for helping and reaching out to
inmates, offenders, who have psychiatric problems, who
have a lot of depression, and things like that.
For more than twenty years, when I was at
Sullivan, I worked with the inmates who were in the
mental health block, the Intermediate Care Program. The
staff there really liked me, and they trusted me.
Even though I lived in general population, all my
time at Sullivan, I mingled freely with these men.
The staff asked me to talk to certain men, who
seemed depressed, who were going through different
things. So I feel that’s my calling in life.
Also for a number of years, I worked as a
mobility guide for the sight impaired.
I also worked as a chapel clerk, and that also
entailed ministering to the men. Sometimes it was
leading the worship services, opening the worship services in
prayer. Sometimes, even preaching the message when the
guests don’t show.
The chaplaincy staff, as well as the officers in
the chapel, trusted me, completely, to be around the
volunteers. The men and women would come in, and I
would sit with them and work with them.
So I really just count my blessings. I’ve

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really done wonderful. Considering all the things in my
situation, I did excellent at Sullivan, and I was
thankful for those opportunities.
Q. That service is much to your credit. We will
consider that as such in our deliberations.
The panel does note official opposition to your
release on file. The panel also notes consistent
community opposition to your release, as well, which
will also be considered among the myriad of factors that
the Executive Law requires us to examine.
A. Sure.
COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Elovich?
COMM. ELOVICH: Just a couple of questions.
BY COMMISSIONER ELOVICH:
Q. Why were you transferred from Sullivan to
Shawangunk, if you know?
A. I don’t know. I can only speculate that it was
because of the new way of doing things, after the two
inmates escaped from Clinton.
I did very well in Sullivan. On April 12th of
this year, the officer told me, “Hey, we got a call from
Draft Processing, that you have to pack up, that you are the
transfer.”
It was a shock to everybody; including the
officer, in the cell block, where I lived for many years,

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he knew me.
That was it. They just put me, on a transfer, in
a van, and sent me to Shawangunk. I don’t know. It was
just instant. I did very well at Sullivan.
Q. One more question. When Commissioner Ludlow had
questioned you about the instant offense, you said you
were not in your right state of mind.
To what do you attribute the execution of six
innocent people and the shooting of another seven
innocent people” Where did that rage come from?
A. Ma’am, I’ll be frank. I just---I can’t even
explain that. I can’t put that into words. It’s beyond
my comprehension.
I look back with—like—so much disbelief. There
there are times that I wake up and say I can’t believe this
happened.
I just don’t understand it. It’s something
painful that happened that I have to deal with. It
happened.
I can’t put everything into a couple of
sentences. I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m sorry.
I’m sorry.
COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Thompson?
COMM. THOMPSON: No further questions.
Thank you.

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David Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1976 NYSID

COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Elovich,
anything additional?
COMM. ELOVICH: Nothing additional. Thank
you.
CONTINUED BY COMMISSIONER LUDLOW:
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, anything additional, that’s
important to you, sir, that you wish to apprise the
panel, before we close the interview, sir?
A. I do have something that I wrote. It’s a
two-page letter that I prepared. I even typed it up
last night.
Would it be possible for me to just read this to
you, for your own information?
Q. Yes, we will let you read that, sir.
If you wish to submit the actual letter, in its
entirety, I would ask you to have our good staff at
Shawangunk, fax that over to us, and we will incorporate
It into the record here. Go ahead.
A. Yes, I would like that very much. Thank you.
This is a letter to the Parole Board. I composed this last night,
in my cell, and then with my
typewriter. I just put it together.
Q. We do have a certified stenographic reporter in
the room with us. This is a verbatim record. I would
ask you to read at the proper speed so that the record

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David Berkowitz 78 A 1976 NYSID

can be made clear. Thank you.
A. Thank you. Okay. I will. I’ll try.
The letter to the Parole Board: “Thank you for
allowing me the opportunity to present this letter to
you and to speak on this matter.
Since my arrival at Sullivan Correctional Facility, some
twenty-eight plus years ago, I do believe that in the course of
time, I have been able to be a help to both the
facility’s staff, and the inmates.
For example, I was trained as an 'Inmate Program Aide'
(IPA), and performed as something of a peer counselor.
for those who were housed in the E-North’s 'Intermediate
Care Program' (ICP) for various mental health and
psychiatric reasons; I lived in the prison’s general
population, but worked in the 64-man ICP Unit on
weekdays where I cared for these men.
In addition, I have spent time working as a
'sighted guide' escorting and assisting those of the
Sensorian Disabled Unit where those that are legally
blind needed daily help. I also worked as the
chaplain’s assistant and as the chapel clerk for many
years. My responsibilities included everything from
doing all kinds of paperwork, setting things up for the
services, and helping to coordinate those services when
I was asked to do so. I was also present to welcome and

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accompany all of the civilian ministerial volunteers,
and to even sit alongside them when necessary. The
chaplaincy and correctional staff having no qualms
allowing me to help watch over the men and women, who
regularly visited our chapel as guests.
In all the years I was housed at Sullivan there was
never a serious problem with the volunteers. Clearly
the staff never viewed me as a risk or a threat, nor as
a potential security problem. Had they done so,
obviously, I would never have been permitted to function
In such a capacity.
I believe that throughout the years I’ve spent at
Sullivan Correctional Facility, I was able with God’s
help, to do many good and beneficial things, both for my
fellow offenders, and for the staff as well. As a
Christian and caregiver, I have counseled and prayed
with countless men, some who have lost a loved one or
were despairing over the news of a very sick family
member. While others were despondent at having lost
contact with someone whom they were once very close to. I
made sure I was available to help anyone who requested
prayer or advice. I tried to be there for those who
were depressed.
While in my free time I would write letters and messages
with spiritual themes, which, I believe, have provided

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hope and inspiration from all walks of
life. I have written extensively on such subjects as
forgiveness, redemption, and persevering under difficult
circumstances, as well as on the need to discourage gun
violence.
Not that any of this means anything overall. But I hope
it does show the members of the parole board that I have
devoted my life to doing good. That the staff at
Sullivan considered me to be trustworthy, dependable, and
respectful. For this I am most thankful. I especially
thank God for changing my life and making all this
possible.
I likewise hope to continue to do good in the future,
even if I have to take my last dying breath behind
prison walls. I want to continue to be something of a
role model for my fellow inmates, as well as a source of
hope and inspiration to whomever I can. Thank you!
Respectfully, David Berkowitz, Dated May 17th, 2016.”
Thank you for allowing me to share this, sir. I
appreciate that.
Q. You’re welcome, sir. Thank you for making that
statement. We certainly hope that you are sincere with
respect to the entirety of that statement
A. Okay, thank you.
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, we have attempted to give you a

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full, fair, and accurate interview today. In your
opinion, sir, have you received that?
A. Yes, I have. Thank you.
COMM. LUDLOW: We will close the interview.
we will advise you in writing in due course
Hopefully, we will strive to bring all of our
consideration to the forefront, to fully comply with the
Executive Law that is imposed on the Board of Parole
Thank you, sir.
THE INMATE: Sure. Okay. I’ll furnish a
copy of the letter to you, just for general filing or
whatever. I wish all of you a good day.
COMM. LUDLOW: We will incorporate that in
the actual record. Thank you, sir.
INMATE: Okay, thank you.

                           (Interview concluded.)

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(After due deliberation by the Parole Board Panel,
the following decision was rendered:)
DECISION
David Berkowitz, parole is denied. Hold 24 months
Next appearance, May 2018.
Following careful review and deliberation of your
record and interview, the Panel concludes that
discretionary release is not presently warranted due to
concern for the public safety and welfare.
The following factors are properly weighed and
considered; your instant offenses in the City of New
York, from July 1976 to July 1977, involved you
causing the death of six victims and wounding seven
other individuals.
Your criminal history indicates the instant
offenses to be your only felony of record.
Your institutional programming indicates progress
and achievement, which is noted to your credit.
Your disciplinary record appears clean, since your
prior appearance.
You virtually paralyzed the city of New York for
for one year, from July 1974 to July 1977.

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The panel notes current official opposition to your
release. The panel also notes consistent community
opposition to your release.
Required statutory factors have been considered;
including your risk to the community, rehabilitation
efforts, and a needs for successful community
re-entry.
Your discretionary release, at this time, would
thus not be compatible with the welfare of society at
large, and would tend to deprecate the seriousness of
the Instant Offenses, and undermine respect for the law.

(All commissioners concur)


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CERTIFICATION
I, Lori Ciofalo, Court Reporter and Notary Public,
in and for the State of New York, do hereby certify that
I attended the foregoing proceedings, took stenographic
Notes of the same, and that the forgoing, consisting of
23 pages, is a true and correct copy of the same, and
Whole thereof.
Lori Ciofalo
Lori Ciofalo, Court Reporter
Dated” May 17, 2016